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I believe that this nation should commit

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itself to achieving the goal before this

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decade is out of landing a man on the

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moon and returning him safely to the

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earth

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no single space project in this period

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will be more impressive to mankind or

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more important for the long-range

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exploration of space and none will be so

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welcome to the skipped exert the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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[Music]

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yes welcome to this lunar episode of the

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skeptics own podcast episode number 561

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for the 21st of July 1969 2019 and I

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think I mentioned on last week's show

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that exactly fifty years ago as I record

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this I was sitting in front of the TV

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watching yeah the moon landing although

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I don't really remember it but coming up

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on this week's show something well maybe

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some listeners would remember reading

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the front page of The Sydney Morning

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Herald newspaper published exactly 50

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years ago this morning as I record as a

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tribute to the Apollo mission I will

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read most of the front page of The

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Sydney Morning Herald coming up very

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soon men on moon US astronauts open a

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new era for mankind man has landed on

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the moon the u.s. spacecraft eagle

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carrying Neil Armstrong and Edwin Aldrin

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touched down on the lunar surface early

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today

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Sydney time how exciting that must have

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been for people reading that at the time

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following that I'm going to read a New

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Flyer or should I say a revamped flyer

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from Australian skeptics dealing with

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the moon landing hoax the so called moon

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landing hoax and I must say that this

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whole people never went to the moon

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NASA is lying to us conspiracy theory

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it's really really faded away over the

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last few years it's still around there

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are still those people on line pushing

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this and bringing up old arguments I

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still know people who firmly believe

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that Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin

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never went to the moon and neither did

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anybody else but I'm glad to say this

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conspiracy is I think it's virtually

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died its own death nevertheless the

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Australian skeptics have put out a

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revamped flyer about this issue moon

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landings were no hoax which explore some

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of the major points put forward by

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conspiracy theorists then I catch up

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with Ben Radford from Albuquerque New

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Mexico and one of the co

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hosts of squaring the strange because

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it's come to my attention and maybe

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you've heard it too by now that there's

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some sort of wacky plan or maybe it's a

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hoax to to storm area 51 the US

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government testing area in the Nevada

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desert and it seems like a very ill

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conceived idea so we strongly suspect

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it's just a silly hoax and a silly hoax

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that maybe has gone a bit wrong because

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if people do turn up the last thing

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they're going to be doing is storing

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area 51 getting anywhere near it

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but what's the story behind this area 51

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we find out with Ben Radford then to

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round off the show it's susan gerbic

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with her new segment yes it's about time

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I think we need to think through susan

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gerbic and susan this week chats to

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Carlos OC and Natalia Pasternak from

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Brazil a couple of Brazilian skeptics

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trying to get skepticism really underway

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in that South American country what's

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the story with pseudoscience in Brazil

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find out with susan gerbic at the end of

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the show but now it's time for me to run

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down the stairs jump into my car drive

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to some sort of spaceport and go to the

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moon yes that would be fun cause I think

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that's really not going to happen maybe

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instead I should have some some nice

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sushi followed by coffee sound good to

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you well I do that I hope you enjoy the

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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five four three two one

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we have a baby one all philtrum and when

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contemplating what what I should do for

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the 50th anniversary of the moon landing

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I thought I would do a bit of research

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and look at the front page of The Sydney

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Morning Herald newspaper to see what

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people of the time fifty years ago in

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Sydney in Australia were reading and so

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the Sydney Morning Herald Monday July 21

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1969 banner headline men on moon US

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astronauts open a new era for mankind

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and this is from Peter Michael Moore and

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Roy McCartney at Mission Control Houston

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Texas and aap man has landed on the moon

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the u.s. spacecraft eagle carrying Neil

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Armstrong and Edwin Aldrin touched down

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on the lunar surface early today

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Sydney time the astronauts landing

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mankind's first on another celestial

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body opens a new era in the history of

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the human race as the Columbia piloted

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by Michael Collins continued to circle

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the moon the lunar module Eagle

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separated from it at a height of about

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50,000 feet and the speed of 3500 miles

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per hour the Eagle crew fired the engine

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which slowed its velocity and then it

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began dropping towards the moon's

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surface after maneuvering into an

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upright position for its final descent

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the Eagle aligned astride a pillar of

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rocket flame touchdown came 102 hours

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after liftoff from the earth Armstrong

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and Aldrin was scheduled to make a

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two-hour check of the Eagle for possible

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damage following the landing if they

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found serious faults such as leaking

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fuel or falling cabin pressure they were

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under instructions to take off

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immediately and rejoined Collins in the

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Columbia all being well they are

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scheduled to eat take a four-hour rest

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and eat again before Armstrong emerges

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from the eagle but there is a strong

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possibility that Armstrong will make his

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lunar walk early perhaps only three

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hours after touchdown instead of at 4:16

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p.m. and scheduled when he does his

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steps will be imprinted for all time on

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the records and the minds of men checks

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ahead of schedule

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the astronauts awoke on schedule soon

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after nine o'clock last night behind

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them was a day in which they entered

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lunar orbit then circled the moon ten

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times the astronauts had slept for about

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five hours before Mission Control in

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Houston roused them

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the initial conversation carried no hint

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of the historic moment looming nine

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hours ahead capsule communicator ron

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evans put in the wake-up call at about

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904 p.m. as the ship passed behind the

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moon collins answered the call with a

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pause good morning houston you guys are

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sure up early then the crew lapsed into

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silence

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eating breakfast and beginning the

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checks to make sure their spaceship was

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ready to perform the landing breakfast

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was peaches bacon squares strawberry

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cubes orange and grape drinks sixty

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miles below Apollo stretched the moon's

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airless jagged hostile face and its

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searing temperatures first move Aldrin

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made the first move of the most vital

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day at the end of the tenth orbit of the

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moon he left Columbia about 11:20 p.m.

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Sydney time and slipped through a

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connecting tunnel into the ungainly

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looking Eagle there he turned on the

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power and pressurized the ship he was

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followed in by Armstrong the module

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pilot and after examination of all

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controls and dials they reported back to

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Houston we're in good shape they were

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going further and further ahead of the

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work schedule all the date they had

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Eagle powered in 30 minutes ahead of the

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flight plan less than three hours from

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Eagle undocking and a bear five and a

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half hours from the scheduled touchdown

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everything was going perfectly for the

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first time in flight Houston control was

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calling the Eagle and Columbia by name

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instead of Apollo 11 Armstrong had

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donned his pressure suit to enter the

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Eagle and of course this story goes on

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most of the first page most of the front

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page and continued on let's see it's

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continued on page three and we read on a

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little bit more from page three which

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says the Apollo 11 saga the first day on

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the moon and this page says in part on

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paper Armstrong and Aldrin are supposed

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to stay in the

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Eagles cramped cabin for nine hours 53

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minutes before setting foot outside onto

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the crater pocked bed of the Sea of

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Tranquility besides making sure their

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ship is in good shape for takeoff they

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are scheduled to eat and rest with a

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goal long thought to be unobtainable a

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nine rung ladders length away

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Armstrong before the flight doubted he

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would be able to sleep if mission

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controllers are sure the space ship was

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not damaged on landing and if doctors

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are satisfied that the men are

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well-rested their slow stroll across the

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airless moon scape could begin any time

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after landing the lunar surface

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timetable calls for the astronauts to

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spend 21 hours 36 minutes on the moon 2

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hours and 40 minutes of that exploring

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the area around their spaceship can you

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imagine what it must have been like for

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those people in Sydney and Australia and

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the world 50 years ago 50 years ago

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reading that in the newspapers or having

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just watched some of that on the

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television but all in this report with

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another little section in the in the

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paper on the third page watching for

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bunny-girl when ground control read the

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morning news to the Apollo astronauts

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they were told that one of the articles

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about their mission made a special plea

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that they should look out for a

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beautiful Chinese girl who had been

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banished to the moon 4,000 years ago

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according to the legend the Chinese girl

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was accompanied by a large Chinese

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rabbit okay said Armstrong we'll keep a

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[Applause]

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downloadable printable information flyer

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from Australian skeptics released on the

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16th of july 2019 moon landings were no

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hoax on July 20th 1969 two men from the

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planet Earth first set foot upon the

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moon millions of people around the world

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were riveted to their TV screens as Neil

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Armstrong stepped from the landing

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module

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reading from the reality TV pas

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excellence for the next two years and

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five more successful missions later the

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number of moon walkers had reached 12

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since the last of these missions Apollo

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17 splashed down in 1972 momentum has

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gathered for the proposition that we

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have all been misled by the US

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government and by NASA in particular

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that the whole endeavor was somehow

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faked and no one has in fact visited the

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moon this conspiracy theory gained much

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attention in the early 2000s with Fox's

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TV special conspiracy theory did we land

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on the moon which aired in the USA in

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February 2001 millions of viewers

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apparently found the pro hoax arguments

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persuasive and convincing

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according to Fox there were the

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technical experts

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American and Russian who claimed that

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NASA did not possess the technology in

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1969 to achieve these feats or at least

274
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the likelihood of success was so tiny

275
00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:00,770
that the risk of a real moon landing

276
00:15:04,330 --> 00:15:02,330
would not have been seriously

277
00:15:08,050 --> 00:15:04,340
contemplated some of the other

278
00:15:12,100 --> 00:15:08,060
sensational facts put forward in 2001

279
00:15:14,110 --> 00:15:12,110
and still being used today are the film

280
00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:14,120
footage of the astronauts on the moon is

281
00:15:19,180 --> 00:15:16,850
said to contain so many technical errors

282
00:15:23,140 --> 00:15:19,190
that it must have been shot in a studio

283
00:15:26,590 --> 00:15:23,150
on earth the flag when planted appears

284
00:15:29,740 --> 00:15:26,600
to wave in the breeze even though the

285
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:29,750
moon is airless although the moon's sky

286
00:15:36,310 --> 00:15:34,130
is black there are no stars no blast

287
00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:36,320
crater is visible under the landing

288
00:15:42,130 --> 00:15:39,290
module the shadows appear to go in

289
00:15:45,370 --> 00:15:42,140
different directions so there must be

290
00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:45,380
several studio light sources in

291
00:15:50,980 --> 00:15:48,730
providing a motivation for a nasa hoax

292
00:15:53,470 --> 00:15:50,990
conspiracy theorists point to the

293
00:15:55,270 --> 00:15:53,480
intense rivalry between the USA and the

294
00:15:58,990 --> 00:15:55,280
Eastern Bloc that existed at the time

295
00:16:02,230 --> 00:15:59,000
the USSR had in fact already beaten the

296
00:16:04,810 --> 00:16:02,240
USA time and time again in the so called

297
00:16:07,810 --> 00:16:04,820
space race and had been first the

298
00:16:10,660 --> 00:16:07,820
photograph the moon's dark side when

299
00:16:12,790 --> 00:16:10,670
President Kennedy pronounced in 1963

300
00:16:15,970 --> 00:16:12,800
that the USA would land men on the moon

301
00:16:18,790 --> 00:16:15,980
before this decade is out he committed

302
00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:18,800
future governments to a goal that had to

303
00:16:24,850 --> 00:16:22,130
be seen to be achieved at all costs it

304
00:16:28,060 --> 00:16:24,860
was important for status and diplomacy

305
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:28,070
abroad the USA was also deeply involved

306
00:16:33,730 --> 00:16:31,490
in an increasingly unpopular war in

307
00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:33,740
Vietnam three successive presidents were

308
00:16:37,900 --> 00:16:36,050
keen to be associated with their

309
00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:37,910
positive news that the Apollo program

310
00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:40,970
generated and while Apollo was expensive

311
00:16:46,470 --> 00:16:44,090
by some measures it was not that costly

312
00:16:49,450 --> 00:16:46,480
compared with America's defense and

313
00:16:52,690 --> 00:16:49,460
diplomatic budgets the possibility of

314
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:52,700
failure of the Apollo program was not an

315
00:16:56,470 --> 00:16:53,210
option

316
00:16:58,510 --> 00:16:56,480
but the USA clearly did have the

317
00:17:01,000 --> 00:16:58,520
technology to launch a moon shot which

318
00:17:03,519 --> 00:17:01,010
could be sufficiently large to

319
00:17:06,010 --> 00:17:03,529
three men and which using several

320
00:17:09,250 --> 00:17:06,020
disposable stages of decreasing size

321
00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:09,260
could land on the moon takeoff and

322
00:17:14,890 --> 00:17:12,650
return to a soft splashdown on earth we

323
00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:14,900
know this because the telemetry of

324
00:17:21,789 --> 00:17:18,650
unfriendly States USSR China East

325
00:17:24,069 --> 00:17:21,799
Germany reported that this is exactly

326
00:17:26,559 --> 00:17:24,079
what happened in later Apollo missions

327
00:17:28,750 --> 00:17:26,569
it is important to note that the Eastern

328
00:17:31,090 --> 00:17:28,760
Bloc raised no doubts in this area

329
00:17:34,090 --> 00:17:31,100
although they would have probably been

330
00:17:35,860 --> 00:17:34,100
hoping for an American failure to offset

331
00:17:39,250 --> 00:17:35,870
the considerable difficulties that the

332
00:17:41,830 --> 00:17:39,260
USSR s program was experiencing these

333
00:17:43,810 --> 00:17:41,840
countries would have alerted the rest of

334
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:43,820
the world if they had evidence the

335
00:17:52,060 --> 00:17:47,450
missions were somehow faked the two most

336
00:17:54,250 --> 00:17:52,070
quoted flaws are the flag waving and the

337
00:17:58,510 --> 00:17:54,260
lack of stars and photographs of the

338
00:18:01,480 --> 00:17:58,520
moon's sky when the metallic flagpole

339
00:18:04,810 --> 00:18:01,490
was planted by twisting it into the soil

340
00:18:08,169 --> 00:18:04,820
it had a certain springiness causing the

341
00:18:10,270 --> 00:18:08,179
flag to ripple that wave continued

342
00:18:13,330 --> 00:18:10,280
because there is no atmosphere to dampen

343
00:18:16,060 --> 00:18:13,340
it once the flag stopped the ripples

344
00:18:18,370 --> 00:18:16,070
were frozen into place which is why the

345
00:18:21,580 --> 00:18:18,380
shape of the flag is the same in all

346
00:18:23,380 --> 00:18:21,590
subsequent photos and movies exactly

347
00:18:25,450 --> 00:18:23,390
what you would expect on the surface of

348
00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:25,460
the Moon next time you want to take a

349
00:18:30,580 --> 00:18:28,250
photograph of somebody at night you will

350
00:18:33,340 --> 00:18:30,590
need to control the amount of light from

351
00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:33,350
your subject if you expose them properly

352
00:18:38,770 --> 00:18:36,770
you will not see stars in the sky if you

353
00:18:40,870 --> 00:18:38,780
allow sufficient light for the stars to

354
00:18:42,940 --> 00:18:40,880
become visible in the developed

355
00:18:46,210 --> 00:18:42,950
photograph everything else in the

356
00:18:49,830 --> 00:18:46,220
photograph will be way overexposed the

357
00:18:52,419 --> 00:18:49,840
surface of the Moon is extremely bright

358
00:18:54,460 --> 00:18:52,429
hundreds of thousands of people all

359
00:18:58,450 --> 00:18:54,470
around the world who worked on the

360
00:19:00,780 --> 00:18:58,460
missions would have to be lying or have

361
00:19:04,060 --> 00:19:00,790
been massively and expensively

362
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:04,070
hoodwinked these include a considerable

363
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:06,650
part of the Pacific Fleet responsible

364
00:19:10,659 --> 00:19:08,210
for recovery of the astronauts at

365
00:19:12,460 --> 00:19:10,669
splashdown it also includes the media

366
00:19:14,020 --> 00:19:12,470
reporters and technicians who were

367
00:19:16,510 --> 00:19:14,030
present at those events

368
00:19:19,090 --> 00:19:16,520
it includes trackers around the world

369
00:19:21,730 --> 00:19:19,100
including Australians at the parks dish

370
00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:21,740
who monitored voice communication when

371
00:19:27,730 --> 00:19:25,250
the astronauts were overhead continuing

372
00:19:28,300 --> 00:19:27,740
to believe that the moon landings were

373
00:19:30,910 --> 00:19:28,310
faked

374
00:19:32,890 --> 00:19:30,920
despite the solid evidence from many

375
00:19:36,030 --> 00:19:32,900
quarters that confirms the missions

376
00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:36,040
despite the thorough and painstaking

377
00:19:42,070 --> 00:19:39,290
debunking of every major objection from

378
00:19:45,250 --> 00:19:42,080
the conspiracy theorists from popular TV

379
00:19:48,550 --> 00:19:45,260
shows such as Mythbusters to hundreds of

380
00:19:51,910 --> 00:19:48,560
detailed explanations online is not

381
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:51,920
being skeptical it is being a science

382
00:19:57,700 --> 00:19:55,010
denier it is the same mindset that leads

383
00:20:00,670 --> 00:19:57,710
people to deny the earth is round or

384
00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:00,680
that climate change is also just another

385
00:20:05,950 --> 00:20:03,410
hoax the moon landings are among the

386
00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:05,960
greatest technological achievement of

387
00:20:15,490 --> 00:20:08,570
humankind with significant cultural

388
00:20:17,740 --> 00:20:15,500
impact they were real and that flyer can

389
00:20:20,500 --> 00:20:17,750
be downloaded from Australian skeptics

390
00:20:24,220 --> 00:20:20,510
I'll will add a link in the show notes

391
00:20:27,420 --> 00:20:24,230
and it's worth remembering that part of

392
00:20:29,710 --> 00:20:27,430
that flyer says that every major

393
00:20:33,610 --> 00:20:29,720
objection from the conspiracy theories

394
00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:33,620
has been debunked and when you get into

395
00:20:42,130 --> 00:20:37,130
that online on YouTube and other areas

396
00:20:44,890 --> 00:20:42,140
it's extraordinary the satisfying detail

397
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:44,900
for which every conspiracy theory every

398
00:20:51,450 --> 00:20:47,650
objection every what about this from the

399
00:20:55,900 --> 00:20:51,460
conspiracy theorists has been dealt with

400
00:20:59,470 --> 00:20:55,910
thoroughly extensively logically

401
00:21:01,780 --> 00:20:59,480
scientifically and I think the flyer is

402
00:21:05,340 --> 00:21:01,790
quite right when faced with all this

403
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:05,350
evidence and the disintegration of their

404
00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:08,810
arguments if people are still willing to

405
00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:10,370
believe the moon landings were faked

406
00:21:15,790 --> 00:21:13,130
well that's about as far from being a

407
00:21:18,580 --> 00:21:15,800
skeptic as you can get and much related

408
00:21:20,740 --> 00:21:18,590
to the theory that the moon landings

409
00:21:24,270 --> 00:21:20,750
were faked is the new movement about the

410
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:24,280
Flat Earth and I will link to the

411
00:21:30,130 --> 00:21:27,530
YouTube channel of Simon dan from the UK

412
00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:30,140
who regularly takes flat-earthers to

413
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:32,770
task and of course we don't forget

414
00:21:38,580 --> 00:21:35,810
professor Dave explains and he has some

415
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:38,590
wonderful videos dealing with the

416
00:21:44,950 --> 00:21:41,570
bizarre arguments put forward by the

417
00:21:46,970 --> 00:21:44,960
Flat Earth conspiracy crowd again all

418
00:21:56,470 --> 00:21:46,980
the links in this week's show nerds

419
00:21:58,940 --> 00:21:56,480
[Music]

420
00:22:01,190 --> 00:21:58,950
the reason was the interview show from

421
00:22:02,450 --> 00:22:01,200
the Merseyside skeptic society where

422
00:22:04,490 --> 00:22:02,460
each month I speak to someone about

423
00:22:06,770 --> 00:22:04,500
their fringe beliefs over the Earth's

424
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:06,780
have spoken to psychics UFO believers

425
00:22:10,970 --> 00:22:08,850
moon landing and ayahs flat earthers

426
00:22:12,830 --> 00:22:10,980
Hollow Earth as an all manner of unusual

427
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:12,840
conspiracy theorists but I've also

428
00:22:16,970 --> 00:22:14,610
talked to a denialists white

429
00:22:18,500 --> 00:22:16,980
supremacists gay conversion therapies

430
00:22:20,360 --> 00:22:18,510
I even interviewed Jim Humble the

431
00:22:22,070 --> 00:22:20,370
inventor of miracle mineral supplement a

432
00:22:23,630 --> 00:22:22,080
form of industrial bleach that he and

433
00:22:26,450 --> 00:22:23,640
his followers used to treat cancer and

434
00:22:28,580 --> 00:22:26,460
HIV this isn't a debate show my aim

435
00:22:30,890 --> 00:22:28,590
isn't to win an argument but when we

436
00:22:33,020 --> 00:22:30,900
listen to how people promote and justify

437
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:33,030
the ideas that we disagree with even the

438
00:22:36,740 --> 00:22:35,010
dangerous ones I think we become much

439
00:22:38,570 --> 00:22:36,750
more effective at countering those ideas

440
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:38,580
if that sounds like something you'd be

441
00:22:42,620 --> 00:22:40,650
interested in look for be reasonable on

442
00:22:43,510 --> 00:22:42,630
Apple podcasts and everywhere else the

443
00:23:00,800 --> 00:22:43,520
podcast

444
00:23:04,529 --> 00:23:02,460
[Applause]

445
00:23:07,020 --> 00:23:04,539
and joining me now all the way from

446
00:23:09,029 --> 00:23:07,030
beautiful Albuquerque New Mexico and I

447
00:23:11,430 --> 00:23:09,039
know it's beautiful folks cuz I was

448
00:23:14,390 --> 00:23:11,440
there only a matter of weeks ago

449
00:23:16,890 --> 00:23:14,400
visiting my friend Ben Redfern hello Ben

450
00:23:19,740 --> 00:23:16,900
hello Richard great gates talk to you

451
00:23:21,690 --> 00:23:19,750
yes and what a wonderful time I did have

452
00:23:25,529 --> 00:23:21,700
an Albuquerque thank you very much for

453
00:23:27,270 --> 00:23:25,539
showing me around and and as I mentioned

454
00:23:30,539 --> 00:23:27,280
on last week's show we even had the

455
00:23:32,159 --> 00:23:30,549
bizarre situation where you would took a

456
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:32,169
photograph of me just on the highway

457
00:23:36,090 --> 00:23:33,850
there and the lovely desert in the

458
00:23:40,710 --> 00:23:36,100
background and a UFO appeared in the

459
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:40,720
photograph literally literally it was

460
00:23:46,230 --> 00:23:42,730
not identified I I still have no idea

461
00:23:48,860 --> 00:23:46,240
what it was you know with Ockham's razor

462
00:23:51,180 --> 00:23:48,870
we could narrow down pretty quickly

463
00:23:53,549 --> 00:23:51,190
strictly speaking I haven't the faintest

464
00:23:55,710 --> 00:23:53,559
what it is but I love the fact that that

465
00:24:00,240 --> 00:23:55,720
you being you took the photograph of me

466
00:24:01,890 --> 00:24:00,250
being me and there it is thank you that

467
00:24:04,950 --> 00:24:01,900
was worth its weight in gold I think

468
00:24:07,860 --> 00:24:04,960
maybe Ben maybe that UFO was on its way

469
00:24:10,110 --> 00:24:07,870
to area 51 and that's what we're

470
00:24:12,120 --> 00:24:10,120
discussing with you today because it's

471
00:24:13,970 --> 00:24:12,130
come to my attention and this is getting

472
00:24:17,820 --> 00:24:13,980
a lot of lot of traction on the internet

473
00:24:19,590 --> 00:24:17,830
that what started out as probably a joke

474
00:24:23,490 --> 00:24:19,600
has seemed to have grown into something

475
00:24:27,169 --> 00:24:23,500
much more and this involves supposedly a

476
00:24:29,820 --> 00:24:27,179
million people turning up at area 51 to

477
00:24:31,890 --> 00:24:29,830
land evidence of aliens now there's so

478
00:24:35,490 --> 00:24:31,900
many sides to this story I mean it's the

479
00:24:36,810 --> 00:24:35,500
story that just keeps firstly from your

480
00:24:39,149 --> 00:24:36,820
point of view and I know you've done

481
00:24:43,919 --> 00:24:39,159
some research on this what what the hell

482
00:24:46,230 --> 00:24:43,929
is area 51 so area 51 it's a it's a

483
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:46,240
place about 80 miles northwest of Las

484
00:24:52,649 --> 00:24:49,690
Vegas the base itself is relatively

485
00:24:56,010 --> 00:24:52,659
small it's of course a Air Force Base

486
00:24:58,560 --> 00:24:56,020
among other things but of more interest

487
00:25:02,490 --> 00:24:58,570
in some ways it is the restricted area

488
00:25:05,250 --> 00:25:02,500
around it which is covers over 90,000

489
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:05,260
acres so it's a pretty small base but a

490
00:25:11,340 --> 00:25:07,450
lot of a live train you're not allowed

491
00:25:14,039 --> 00:25:11,350
to go over and it began the 1950s is a

492
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:14,049
place to test you to spy planes and it's

493
00:25:18,570 --> 00:25:16,090
mostly conspiracy theorists

494
00:25:21,360 --> 00:25:18,580
and of course the media who call it area

495
00:25:23,120 --> 00:25:21,370
51 that's that is that is not the

496
00:25:26,580 --> 00:25:23,130
official name the official name is

497
00:25:28,740 --> 00:25:26,590
Nevada test and training range all right

498
00:25:31,169 --> 00:25:28,750
part of the Edwards which is formally

499
00:25:33,930 --> 00:25:31,179
Nellis Air Force Base so if someone is

500
00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:33,940
is referring to area 51 then it's

501
00:25:38,789 --> 00:25:36,370
specifically because of the associations

502
00:25:40,950 --> 00:25:38,799
with you know alien hidden craft and

503
00:25:42,870 --> 00:25:40,960
things like that no did somebody make up

504
00:25:46,019 --> 00:25:42,880
this designation or is there some sort

505
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:46,029
of map reference that refers to well

506
00:25:53,070 --> 00:25:48,970
that's actually a good question it said

507
00:25:56,130 --> 00:25:53,080
that the the idea behind the name from

508
00:25:59,039 --> 00:25:56,140
area 51 came from early Maps although

509
00:26:01,860 --> 00:25:59,049
it's not it's not really clear the

510
00:26:08,519 --> 00:26:01,870
airspace above area 51 is known as our

511
00:26:10,049 --> 00:26:08,529
48 Oh 8 at oh so so there's that that

512
00:26:12,210 --> 00:26:10,059
doesn't that doesn't exactly roll off

513
00:26:14,340 --> 00:26:12,220
the tongue like area it does not it

514
00:26:17,330 --> 00:26:14,350
sounds much more exciting and sexy and

515
00:26:19,500 --> 00:26:17,340
mysterious to say area 51 yeah yeah

516
00:26:23,450 --> 00:26:19,510
basically speaking we're talking about a

517
00:26:26,460 --> 00:26:23,460
US government installation for testing

518
00:26:30,120 --> 00:26:26,470
various things and this is hardly

519
00:26:32,310 --> 00:26:30,130
shocking or surprising is it right this

520
00:26:35,010 --> 00:26:32,320
is this is this is what I found so so

521
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:35,020
amusing about the area 51 story is that

522
00:26:39,779 --> 00:26:37,570
it is according to the Air Force and

523
00:26:41,820 --> 00:26:39,789
I'll just quote here briefly the

524
00:26:44,250 --> 00:26:41,830
facility's purpose is as follows quote

525
00:26:46,799 --> 00:26:44,260
the testing of technologies and systems

526
00:26:48,899 --> 00:26:46,809
training for operations critical to the

527
00:26:52,049 --> 00:26:48,909
effectiveness of US military forces and

528
00:26:56,010 --> 00:26:52,059
security of the United States yeah so

529
00:26:58,940 --> 00:26:56,020
it's a not so secret military base it is

530
00:27:02,610 --> 00:26:58,950
one of one of many military bases

531
00:27:03,930 --> 00:27:02,620
operated around the world by various

532
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:03,940
countries there's nothing particularly

533
00:27:08,789 --> 00:27:07,450
unusual or weird about that that's you

534
00:27:11,519 --> 00:27:08,799
know if you're a government and you have

535
00:27:14,070 --> 00:27:11,529
military per ticket

536
00:27:17,250 --> 00:27:14,080
then you need a place to test those

537
00:27:19,049 --> 00:27:17,260
aircraft that doesn't mean you're hiding

538
00:27:21,330 --> 00:27:19,059
alien bodies it doesn't mean anything

539
00:27:23,820 --> 00:27:21,340
nefarious it just means that you need a

540
00:27:27,980 --> 00:27:23,830
place to test aircraft preferably away

541
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:27,990
from places where say for example

542
00:27:31,500 --> 00:27:29,890
enemies might

543
00:27:33,510 --> 00:27:31,510
might want to videotape to know what

544
00:27:35,460 --> 00:27:33,520
you're developing oh so far been you're

545
00:27:38,610 --> 00:27:35,470
just making far too much sense I mean

546
00:27:40,950 --> 00:27:38,620
that okay so a large government the

547
00:27:43,530 --> 00:27:40,960
United States China Russia Australia who

548
00:27:46,830 --> 00:27:43,540
cares has an area within their borders

549
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:46,840
for testing equipment testing things

550
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:48,970
there are certain secrets of course like

551
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:50,410
all countries you don't want your

552
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:52,930
potential enemies knowing exactly what

553
00:27:56,730 --> 00:27:54,010
what you're up to

554
00:28:00,510 --> 00:27:56,740
so so far there's just it's gobsmacking

555
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:00,520
ly boring in a way isn't it it really is

556
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:03,610
you know what's another thing about era

557
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:05,770
if you want is that because it has had

558
00:28:10,020 --> 00:28:07,810
this this sort of mythology grow around

559
00:28:14,070 --> 00:28:10,030
it associated with aliens and UFOs and

560
00:28:16,530 --> 00:28:14,080
what not doing largely in part to to the

561
00:28:20,130 --> 00:28:16,540
the stories of a man named Bob Lazar who

562
00:28:22,050 --> 00:28:20,140
in the 1980s went anonymously on a TV

563
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:22,060
show and of course when you go in on in

564
00:28:27,180 --> 00:28:24,250
the sea there's red flags right there

565
00:28:34,620 --> 00:28:27,190
but he went on a TV show in in

566
00:28:37,470 --> 00:28:34,630
silhouette codenamed Dennis yeah and he

567
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:37,480
said was yeah he said it was there and

568
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:40,690
he had all these stories of flying

569
00:28:48,300 --> 00:28:44,170
saucers and and 342 foot tall alien

570
00:28:52,020 --> 00:28:48,310
bodies and these really dramatic sort of

571
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:52,030
heroic you know dodging security guards

572
00:28:58,410 --> 00:28:56,770
and finding out the truth and Lazar at

573
00:29:01,140 --> 00:28:58,420
this point is pretty well discredited I

574
00:29:04,050 --> 00:29:01,150
mean both by skeptics and believers have

575
00:29:05,460 --> 00:29:04,060
looked into his story and there's just

576
00:29:08,300 --> 00:29:05,470
nothing to it he lied about his

577
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:08,310
background he claimed that he had

578
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:11,050
degrees from MIT they never heard of him

579
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:13,330
it's just so the whole thing fell apart

580
00:29:17,700 --> 00:29:16,210
but the story stuck so it just sounds

581
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:17,710
like somebody was just after a little

582
00:29:23,220 --> 00:29:19,810
publicity or notoriety or the media

583
00:29:25,590 --> 00:29:23,230
thought they smelled a good story yeah

584
00:29:27,780 --> 00:29:25,600
and again it just it just stuck and so

585
00:29:32,130 --> 00:29:27,790
it's it's it has become incorporated

586
00:29:34,890 --> 00:29:32,140
into of course alien lore and also of

587
00:29:37,410 --> 00:29:34,900
course the area 51 being Nevada I'm here

588
00:29:41,820 --> 00:29:37,420
in New Mexico as you know yeah and here

589
00:29:43,530 --> 00:29:41,830
we have Roswell so there's lots of

590
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:43,540
conspiracy theories about

591
00:29:50,700 --> 00:29:46,330
the the bodies that crashed at Roswell

592
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:50,710
were taken to area 51 and who knows

593
00:29:59,280 --> 00:29:55,090
cut open or bread or yeah now it's

594
00:30:01,590 --> 00:29:59,290
interesting because as we know Roswell

595
00:30:04,140 --> 00:30:01,600
itself this quite an industry of UFOs

596
00:30:05,820 --> 00:30:04,150
even even stretching as far as

597
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:05,830
Albuquerque because when I was in

598
00:30:10,650 --> 00:30:08,050
Albuquerque visiting you I could easily

599
00:30:12,900 --> 00:30:10,660
find UFO paraphernalia or UFO shot

600
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:12,910
glasses and alien dice from the airport

601
00:30:16,950 --> 00:30:13,650
and whatnot

602
00:30:19,380 --> 00:30:16,960
t-shirts Roswell I'm sure is just

603
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:19,390
teeming with the souvenirs and alien

604
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:21,970
theme things but I note there's a little

605
00:30:27,300 --> 00:30:24,130
town called Rachel which is near area 51

606
00:30:32,100 --> 00:30:27,310
which also does a fabulous trade in

607
00:30:34,530 --> 00:30:32,110
aliens and UFOs absolutely and I've been

608
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:34,540
there I've been again you can't go you

609
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:36,970
can't actually go on to area 51 without

610
00:30:41,490 --> 00:30:39,850
without a government clearance you know

611
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:41,500
there are there are armed guards there

612
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:43,570
are buried

613
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:46,530
tracers there's cameras there's security

614
00:30:51,150 --> 00:30:49,690
fences in some places buried motion

615
00:30:53,490 --> 00:30:51,160
sensors things like that and there are

616
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:53,500
signs that I believe I'm not skeptical

617
00:30:59,100 --> 00:30:56,530
of these this say that Security's you is

618
00:31:00,270 --> 00:30:59,110
authorized to use deadly force again

619
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:00,280
they're not they're not being cute

620
00:31:05,310 --> 00:31:02,650
they're they're guarding potentially

621
00:31:07,140 --> 00:31:05,320
important national secrets so you know

622
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:07,150
that's that's that's what they do there

623
00:31:13,170 --> 00:31:09,730
and if you know 1.2 million Yahoo's on

624
00:31:16,530 --> 00:31:13,180
Facebook decide they want to go and go

625
00:31:18,780 --> 00:31:16,540
in store marry 51 more power to you I

626
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:18,790
want to see this yeah well the thing

627
00:31:23,490 --> 00:31:21,370
about this this whole storming of area

628
00:31:25,620 --> 00:31:23,500
51 and and all these people signing up

629
00:31:27,570 --> 00:31:25,630
our reporter may not made a good point

630
00:31:33,300 --> 00:31:27,580
that if a million people say they'll

631
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:33,310
come to an event seven turn up and two

632
00:31:39,900 --> 00:31:36,930
of them elastic that's right and

633
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:39,910
somebody made an interesting comment

634
00:31:44,070 --> 00:31:42,610
about the logistics saying you know you

635
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:44,080
get a certain amount of people on that

636
00:31:48,180 --> 00:31:46,090
Highway anyway it turns into a traffic a

637
00:31:49,710 --> 00:31:48,190
traffic jam where are people going to

638
00:31:52,710 --> 00:31:49,720
stay what are they going to eat what are

639
00:31:54,780 --> 00:31:52,720
the bathroom facilities it's like a UFO

640
00:31:56,970 --> 00:31:54,790
version of the fire festival this fiasco

641
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:56,980
waiting to happen a fiasco waiting to

642
00:31:59,460 --> 00:31:57,370
happen

643
00:32:02,460 --> 00:31:59,470
does turn into something of an absurdity

644
00:32:04,830 --> 00:32:02,470
but it sort of raises another broader

645
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:04,840
issue about conspiracy theorist and and

646
00:32:09,810 --> 00:32:08,170
largely you know maybe we're all guilty

647
00:32:11,490 --> 00:32:09,820
of writing them off too quickly I was

648
00:32:14,850 --> 00:32:11,500
just saying what the how silly how can

649
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:14,860
people believe this but potentially

650
00:32:19,470 --> 00:32:17,170
these bizarre wacky conspiracy theories

651
00:32:21,990 --> 00:32:19,480
can have real-world consequences

652
00:32:23,970 --> 00:32:22,000
especially if people get it in their

653
00:32:27,030 --> 00:32:23,980
heads that they can actually storm area

654
00:32:29,150 --> 00:32:27,040
51 yeah you're exactly right I mean and

655
00:32:32,549 --> 00:32:29,160
you know with with something like this

656
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:32,559
you know it's it's hard to it's hard to

657
00:32:36,540 --> 00:32:34,090
really know how people are interpreting

658
00:32:39,030 --> 00:32:36,550
it I mean in most cases from what I can

659
00:32:40,140 --> 00:32:39,040
tell most people recognize it's a joke

660
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:40,150
you know

661
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:42,370
it's it's an Appa it's a perfect

662
00:32:47,730 --> 00:32:44,290
opportunity to make funny memes you know

663
00:32:50,669 --> 00:32:47,740
aliens you know being freed by stoners

664
00:32:54,060 --> 00:32:50,679
yeah desert I mean it's perfect fodder

665
00:32:55,650 --> 00:32:54,070
for comedy but inevitably there will

666
00:32:58,080 --> 00:32:55,660
probably be a few people because you

667
00:33:02,700 --> 00:32:58,090
know there's nuts everywhere who like

668
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:02,710
yeah man no this is real who knows well

669
00:33:08,130 --> 00:33:04,330
that's that's another interesting point

670
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:08,140
because even if things put out as a joke

671
00:33:14,299 --> 00:33:10,690
I'm gonna be at Flat Earth or the moon

672
00:33:16,830 --> 00:33:14,309
landing hoax or area 51 in a huge

673
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:16,840
population like the United States there

674
00:33:21,990 --> 00:33:19,090
will be a tiny percentage of people who

675
00:33:23,460 --> 00:33:22,000
take it very very seriously and because

676
00:33:25,169 --> 00:33:23,470
of the huge population that tiny

677
00:33:29,010 --> 00:33:25,179
percentage could run into thousands of

678
00:33:32,010 --> 00:33:29,020
people that's true and and I have to say

679
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:32,020
that having dealt with some of these

680
00:33:38,910 --> 00:33:35,170
people some of the most really nasty

681
00:33:41,910 --> 00:33:38,920
aggressive vehement believers that I've

682
00:33:44,610 --> 00:33:41,920
come across are our conspiracy theorists

683
00:33:47,490 --> 00:33:44,620
and in particular UFO folks and part of

684
00:33:49,340 --> 00:33:47,500
the idea behind it is they're angry in

685
00:33:52,350 --> 00:33:49,350
many cases they sincerely believe that

686
00:33:54,390 --> 00:33:52,360
you are hiding the truth and you're you

687
00:33:57,990 --> 00:33:54,400
as a skeptic are sort of towing the

688
00:34:00,270 --> 00:33:58,000
government's line how dare you you'll

689
00:34:02,610 --> 00:34:00,280
help shield the knowledge that humanity

690
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:02,620
is due of regarding you know alien

691
00:34:06,930 --> 00:34:04,450
contact or bodies we're outs and so they

692
00:34:08,580 --> 00:34:06,940
they believe that their causes just and

693
00:34:10,570 --> 00:34:08,590
they they they sincerely believe that

694
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:10,580
that you know there's

695
00:34:13,300 --> 00:34:11,810
these aliens and bodies in this

696
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:13,310
technology that there's all this be

697
00:34:18,150 --> 00:34:16,610
cover up and they get very angry when

698
00:34:20,860 --> 00:34:18,160
they when they think that you are

699
00:34:22,930 --> 00:34:20,870
intentionally keeping information that

700
00:34:25,300 --> 00:34:22,940
they have a right to they get really

701
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:25,310
really aggressive about that sometimes

702
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:27,890
yes I've seen examples of that online in

703
00:34:32,740 --> 00:34:30,410
his various videos which are pure vile

704
00:34:35,020 --> 00:34:32,750
and vindictive and nasty from the these

705
00:34:37,660 --> 00:34:35,030
sort of people it's it's a bit of a

706
00:34:40,150 --> 00:34:37,670
worry and I hope if people some people

707
00:34:43,150 --> 00:34:40,160
do turn up on mass I hope that the

708
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:43,160
authorities can take a very broad view

709
00:34:48,780 --> 00:34:46,010
of it and and you know see it in context

710
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:48,790
of maybe a bit of fun or maybe some

711
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:51,890
misguided people but you know we'll sit

712
00:34:56,770 --> 00:34:54,890
back and see what happens now Ben as the

713
00:34:58,690 --> 00:34:56,780
listeners know this a lot of this

714
00:35:03,610 --> 00:34:58,700
episode is dedicated to the moon

715
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:03,620
landings and I I was just just just old

716
00:35:07,690 --> 00:35:06,290
enough to have seen them for myself when

717
00:35:09,940 --> 00:35:07,700
they were broadcast I wasn't on the moon

718
00:35:15,130 --> 00:35:09,950
I saw the monster on the TV with a big

719
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:15,140
broadcast I did I had a remote TV camera

720
00:35:20,140 --> 00:35:17,570
up there it was very handy and as

721
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:20,150
Australians love to say a lot of the

722
00:35:25,150 --> 00:35:23,210
images were bounced via Australia's for

723
00:35:26,830 --> 00:35:25,160
the rest of the world to to see the moon

724
00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:26,840
landings there we are that's right there

725
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:28,250
was a there was a film called the dish

726
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:30,290
with your choice and if people haven't

727
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:31,970
seen that the movie called the dish it's

728
00:35:36,510 --> 00:35:34,010
all about Australia's role in the moon

729
00:35:40,030 --> 00:35:36,520
landing so it's quite fun it's a very

730
00:35:43,210 --> 00:35:40,040
light-hearted but very interesting funny

731
00:35:47,260 --> 00:35:43,220
movie but yeah someone like you growing

732
00:35:49,150 --> 00:35:47,270
up a few years behind me I guess you had

733
00:35:51,100 --> 00:35:49,160
the same sort of thing you know you as a

734
00:35:53,860 --> 00:35:51,110
little kid you would have seen images of

735
00:35:57,130 --> 00:35:53,870
the astronauts it's part of our history

736
00:35:58,930 --> 00:35:57,140
and then all of a sudden it seems around

737
00:36:00,160 --> 00:35:58,940
the year 2000 there was these people

738
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:00,170
saying that we never went to the moon

739
00:36:05,650 --> 00:36:03,130
which took me completely by surprise

740
00:36:08,530 --> 00:36:05,660
yeah I felt the same way I mean it was

741
00:36:10,870 --> 00:36:08,540
it was so odd to me I mean I grew up in

742
00:36:13,720 --> 00:36:10,880
a family that appreciated science and

743
00:36:16,270 --> 00:36:13,730
literacy and critical thinking and these

744
00:36:17,620 --> 00:36:16,280
sort of things so we were we weren't you

745
00:36:19,750 --> 00:36:17,630
know astronomy buffs or anything it's

746
00:36:21,070 --> 00:36:19,760
not like you know we would gather in the

747
00:36:22,750 --> 00:36:21,080
backyard with a telescope or anything

748
00:36:24,250 --> 00:36:22,760
but I I certainly had a real

749
00:36:27,900 --> 00:36:24,260
appreciation

750
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:27,910
and those sorts of treatments

751
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:30,410
particulars and it just seemed like such

752
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:33,650
a beautiful moment that all of humanity

753
00:36:39,609 --> 00:36:35,210
would be proud of and it was just

754
00:36:41,740 --> 00:36:39,619
bizarre to me to later see people coming

755
00:36:43,720 --> 00:36:41,750
up with these stories about how how we

756
00:36:46,510 --> 00:36:43,730
didn't the whole thing is a hoax and

757
00:36:48,700 --> 00:36:46,520
it's faked and and it was just it just

758
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:48,710
seemed not only a betrayal of the

759
00:36:53,470 --> 00:36:51,290
genuinely amazing technological

760
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:53,480
achievement that it was but just sort of

761
00:36:59,170 --> 00:36:57,050
a backhanded snide well you know you

762
00:37:00,460 --> 00:36:59,180
know judges I know better and yeah we

763
00:37:02,650 --> 00:37:00,470
just all right I just find it really

764
00:37:05,050 --> 00:37:02,660
just taste well I've met quite a few

765
00:37:06,910 --> 00:37:05,060
people over the years who are of the

766
00:37:09,190 --> 00:37:06,920
opinion the moon landings were hoaxed

767
00:37:10,990 --> 00:37:09,200
but they have vehement about it they're

768
00:37:14,020 --> 00:37:11,000
passionate about it they're they're

769
00:37:16,330 --> 00:37:14,030
almost bordering on angry about it

770
00:37:18,070 --> 00:37:16,340
because they've seen some video on

771
00:37:20,830 --> 00:37:18,080
YouTube or they remember watching the

772
00:37:23,380 --> 00:37:20,840
conspiracy theory show put out by Fox

773
00:37:24,940 --> 00:37:23,390
and to them suddenly it all makes sense

774
00:37:31,030 --> 00:37:24,950
and of course the moon landings were

775
00:37:33,580 --> 00:37:31,040
faked and I've spent time with them and

776
00:37:34,900 --> 00:37:33,590
point by point when they've said what

777
00:37:36,550 --> 00:37:34,910
about this what about this and I said

778
00:37:38,020 --> 00:37:36,560
well that's because of this is happening

779
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:38,030
in the stars and because of this reason

780
00:37:42,790 --> 00:37:40,970
when we go on and they're still not

781
00:37:45,430 --> 00:37:42,800
convinced it's just it's really nothing

782
00:37:47,650 --> 00:37:45,440
will convince some people it's it's an

783
00:37:51,700 --> 00:37:47,660
adventure a bizarre adventure in the

784
00:37:53,970 --> 00:37:51,710
psychology it is and you know I had the

785
00:37:57,099 --> 00:37:53,980
same experience with flat-earthers

786
00:37:58,780 --> 00:37:57,109
here and here in Albuquerque a few

787
00:38:01,060 --> 00:37:58,790
months back for our local skeptics group

788
00:38:02,710 --> 00:38:01,070
we had a a genuine flat earther it was

789
00:38:05,170 --> 00:38:02,720
apparently not trawling he seemed very

790
00:38:07,240 --> 00:38:05,180
sincere about it and it just fascinate

791
00:38:08,650 --> 00:38:07,250
him speak it was a skeptic group but

792
00:38:10,540 --> 00:38:08,660
everyone was very respectful and this

793
00:38:13,510 --> 00:38:10,550
and that and we let him talk for an hour

794
00:38:15,970 --> 00:38:13,520
and change but it was just sort of like

795
00:38:18,190 --> 00:38:15,980
all the points that he made up you know

796
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:18,200
we would politely you know discuss it

797
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:21,170
and refute it and he just would not he

798
00:38:24,990 --> 00:38:22,490
wouldn't budge it's just like you know

799
00:38:27,910 --> 00:38:25,000
well you know that's just your science

800
00:38:30,580 --> 00:38:27,920
as opposed to your science who's whose

801
00:38:33,190 --> 00:38:30,590
science are we implementing here there

802
00:38:35,500 --> 00:38:33,200
was just bizarre it is it is and it's

803
00:38:37,660 --> 00:38:35,510
and skeptics can fall into the trap of

804
00:38:37,990 --> 00:38:37,670
getting very short with these people or

805
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:38,000
in

806
00:38:48,340 --> 00:38:47,210
a while it's alright it's alright these

807
00:38:50,530 --> 00:38:48,350
people are going to keep on believing

808
00:38:53,790 --> 00:38:50,540
this you've got better things to do with

809
00:38:56,230 --> 00:38:53,800
your time you educate other people or

810
00:38:58,210 --> 00:38:56,240
whatever it is or play tiddlywinks or

811
00:39:00,310 --> 00:38:58,220
something there is a point there is a

812
00:39:02,140 --> 00:39:00,320
point where you just have to say thank

813
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:02,150
you for your time it's yet it's

814
00:39:06,010 --> 00:39:04,490
diminishing returns and you know and you

815
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:06,020
and I have both encountered that over

816
00:39:10,210 --> 00:39:08,090
the of the long time we've been doing it

817
00:39:12,550 --> 00:39:10,220
at first it was you know I would say

818
00:39:15,610 --> 00:39:12,560
maybe 10 12 years ago I would go ahead

819
00:39:17,530 --> 00:39:15,620
and engage until until I was you know

820
00:39:19,660 --> 00:39:17,540
was trying to get them to to to

821
00:39:20,860 --> 00:39:19,670
recognize what I was saying and finally

822
00:39:22,660 --> 00:39:20,870
I just realized like you said I mean

823
00:39:24,820 --> 00:39:22,670
this is not I don't care I'm gonna sleep

824
00:39:26,950 --> 00:39:24,830
fine either way tonight so whether this

825
00:39:29,230 --> 00:39:26,960
person gets it or not or they recognize

826
00:39:31,420 --> 00:39:29,240
it you know I can only do so much

827
00:39:33,340 --> 00:39:31,430
yeah and you could just you just got to

828
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:33,350
walk away just like that cartoon I can't

829
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:34,850
go to bed somebody is wrong on the

830
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:39,770
Internet well Ben Radford thank you very

831
00:39:46,150 --> 00:39:42,170
much for your insights about area 51

832
00:39:48,310 --> 00:39:46,160
maybe one day you and I can visit do a

833
00:39:50,380 --> 00:39:48,320
big trip we can start off in Roswell and

834
00:39:53,590 --> 00:39:50,390
then follow the alien trail to reach or

835
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:53,600
near area 51 and eat alien burgers and

836
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:54,410
have a good time

837
00:39:57,700 --> 00:39:56,330
that will be delightful I would look

838
00:40:00,060 --> 00:39:57,710
forward to it me too

839
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:00,070
but for now Ben Radford all the way from

840
00:40:04,450 --> 00:40:02,450
Albuquerque New Mexico and don't forget

841
00:40:06,010 --> 00:40:04,460
folks to listen to Ben's podcast

842
00:40:09,010 --> 00:40:06,020
squaring the strange he does with

843
00:40:11,650 --> 00:40:09,020
Pasquale and Celestia a great podcast I

844
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:11,660
enjoy listening to it every couple of

845
00:40:24,380 --> 00:40:13,970
weeks but for now Ben Radford thank you

846
00:40:29,509 --> 00:40:27,380
hey fellow skeptics in Medford here with

847
00:40:31,460 --> 00:40:29,519
Celeste reward your friendly host of

848
00:40:33,410 --> 00:40:31,470
starting the strange a podcast that

849
00:40:35,809 --> 00:40:33,420
looks at topics ranging from legends

850
00:40:38,029 --> 00:40:35,819
panics and cryptids to 80 myths

851
00:40:40,099 --> 00:40:38,039
psychology and folklore breaking things

852
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:40,109
down and picking things apart as we

853
00:40:44,509 --> 00:40:42,210
skeptics do we bring a few different

854
00:40:46,970 --> 00:40:44,519
perspectives on things Celestia for

855
00:40:48,079 --> 00:40:46,980
example is a witty cartoonist and Ben is

856
00:40:50,329 --> 00:40:48,089
a brilliant writer and longtime

857
00:40:52,729 --> 00:40:50,339
skeptical investigator we don't always

858
00:40:54,799 --> 00:40:52,739
agree but we have fun trying and we

859
00:40:57,650 --> 00:40:54,809
learn new things join us for new topics

860
00:40:59,930 --> 00:40:57,660
every week or two or browse our backlog

861
00:41:02,509 --> 00:40:59,940
of evergreen episodes available on

862
00:41:04,970 --> 00:41:02,519
iTunes and all your podcast feeding

863
00:41:10,740 --> 00:41:04,980
troughs squaring the strange take care

864
00:41:43,349 --> 00:41:34,080
I think we need to think here susan

865
00:41:46,230 --> 00:41:43,359
gerbic hello skeptic zone listeners this

866
00:41:47,970 --> 00:41:46,240
is susan gerbic in Salinas California I

867
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:47,980
have a real treat for you I have a

868
00:41:52,230 --> 00:41:49,450
couple really great friends that are

869
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:52,240
here from Brazil that I met at saikhan

870
00:41:57,300 --> 00:41:55,930
in 2018 I wanted to share with you some

871
00:42:00,720 --> 00:41:57,310
conversations we're having about what

872
00:42:01,890 --> 00:42:00,730
they're doing in San Paulo Brazil and a

873
00:42:03,240 --> 00:42:01,900
lot of the different things that are

874
00:42:06,300 --> 00:42:03,250
happening there because I don't think

875
00:42:08,490 --> 00:42:06,310
they were quite aware of the the

876
00:42:11,250 --> 00:42:08,500
craziness is happening with alternative

877
00:42:13,530 --> 00:42:11,260
medicine there hi everyone thanks Susan

878
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:13,540
for heaviness I'm Natalia Pasternak from

879
00:42:18,570 --> 00:42:15,970
Brazil I'm a microbiologist and I'm also

880
00:42:21,690 --> 00:42:18,580
trying to start a skeptic movement in

881
00:42:23,579 --> 00:42:21,700
Brazil hello this is Carlos Carlos RC

882
00:42:26,970 --> 00:42:23,589
I'm a Brazilian journalist and and

883
00:42:29,579 --> 00:42:26,980
writer and as Natalia said I'm working

884
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:29,589
for a few other friends to try and build

885
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:32,650
a skeptical organization and movement

886
00:42:40,220 --> 00:42:35,410
they explained to me that science is

887
00:42:42,750 --> 00:42:40,230
really popular in Brazil but not

888
00:42:44,579 --> 00:42:42,760
skepticism and not critical thinking and

889
00:42:48,450 --> 00:42:44,589
their organization is really going to be

890
00:42:50,550 --> 00:42:48,460
focusing mostly on medical quackery what

891
00:42:53,490 --> 00:42:50,560
we call Kim complementary alternative

892
00:42:56,310 --> 00:42:53,500
medicine from what I understand the

893
00:43:00,210 --> 00:42:56,320
government has kind of sponsored a lot

894
00:43:01,410 --> 00:43:00,220
of alternative medicines and some of

895
00:43:03,150 --> 00:43:01,420
these they tell me about I've never

896
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:03,160
heard of them some of them are the

897
00:43:08,130 --> 00:43:04,650
common ones were used to like homeopathy

898
00:43:09,510 --> 00:43:08,140
Reiki acupuncture chiropractic but

899
00:43:12,300 --> 00:43:09,520
there's some other ones in here that are

900
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:12,310
just fascinating they're called like

901
00:43:16,770 --> 00:43:14,410
there's one called Geo therapy which is

902
00:43:18,510 --> 00:43:16,780
where you put people in mud and then

903
00:43:22,050 --> 00:43:18,520
there's another one that is a remedy for

904
00:43:23,790 --> 00:43:22,060
flowers so we launched these digital

905
00:43:24,450 --> 00:43:23,800
last November it's called

906
00:43:27,359 --> 00:43:24,460
Institute

907
00:43:30,240 --> 00:43:27,369
question of signs and the reason we do

908
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:30,250
that is because we have all been walking

909
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:31,930
with science communication for quite

910
00:43:37,530 --> 00:43:34,330
some time now but science communication

911
00:43:41,460 --> 00:43:37,540
in Brazil is very focused on the beauty

912
00:43:43,829 --> 00:43:41,470
of science and why science is important

913
00:43:46,349 --> 00:43:43,839
and please give us money so that we can

914
00:43:48,839 --> 00:43:46,359
do scientific research and although

915
00:43:51,720 --> 00:43:48,849
that's very important in this kind of

916
00:43:55,050 --> 00:43:51,730
work has to be done no one was looking

917
00:43:57,450 --> 00:43:55,060
at the other side of how science works

918
00:43:59,910 --> 00:43:57,460
how important scientific matter is

919
00:44:03,240 --> 00:43:59,920
critical thinking and skepticism and

920
00:44:04,980 --> 00:44:03,250
this thing's also keep science going and

921
00:44:07,260 --> 00:44:04,990
more than keep it going they guarantee

922
00:44:10,020 --> 00:44:07,270
that it's solid and it's based on

923
00:44:11,670 --> 00:44:10,030
evidence that's why we started Institute

924
00:44:13,980 --> 00:44:11,680
because no one was looking in that

925
00:44:16,620 --> 00:44:13,990
direction and and we really wanted to

926
00:44:18,510 --> 00:44:16,630
tackle that because we have lots of

927
00:44:20,339 --> 00:44:18,520
pseudoscience going on in Brazil and

928
00:44:22,710 --> 00:44:20,349
people have the impression that they are

929
00:44:24,570 --> 00:44:22,720
science of course they're not but no one

930
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:24,580
is going through the trouble of

931
00:44:29,730 --> 00:44:26,650
explaining to the population what

932
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:29,740
science is and what it isn't and that's

933
00:44:34,710 --> 00:44:32,170
what we aim to do with the Institute and

934
00:44:37,530 --> 00:44:34,720
we are very focused in the alternative

935
00:44:40,980 --> 00:44:37,540
medicine practices now because we have

936
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:40,990
29 practices and they call it integrity

937
00:44:46,050 --> 00:44:43,330
of and complementary practices but it's

938
00:44:48,570 --> 00:44:46,060
all just just pseudoscience and we have

939
00:44:51,030 --> 00:44:48,580
29 of those in our public healthcare

940
00:44:52,980 --> 00:44:51,040
system so it's public it's paid for with

941
00:44:54,599 --> 00:44:52,990
taxpayers money so one of the things

942
00:44:56,970 --> 00:44:54,609
that you guys have recently done is you

943
00:44:58,320 --> 00:44:56,980
commissioned a survey because you kind

944
00:45:02,250 --> 00:44:58,330
of wanted to see what is the state of

945
00:45:04,980 --> 00:45:02,260
understanding in Brazil of pseudoscience

946
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:04,990
especially focused on them the quackery

947
00:45:10,170 --> 00:45:08,050
the medical area and I think that the

948
00:45:12,660 --> 00:45:10,180
results that you received on that we're

949
00:45:13,710 --> 00:45:12,670
really eye-opening so Carlos do you

950
00:45:15,329 --> 00:45:13,720
think you could tell us a little bit

951
00:45:17,370 --> 00:45:15,339
about that survey what your results were

952
00:45:20,599 --> 00:45:17,380
in which you found out well we did a

953
00:45:23,099 --> 00:45:20,609
survey we asked people of questions but

954
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:23,109
basically the most fundamental questions

955
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:25,810
for is what do you think the government

956
00:45:30,839 --> 00:45:27,970
should offer in the public health care

957
00:45:34,109 --> 00:45:30,849
system and what do you want or do you

958
00:45:36,060 --> 00:45:34,119
use when you have health problems the

959
00:45:36,990 --> 00:45:36,070
first answer is that people wanted their

960
00:45:39,720 --> 00:45:37,000
the government to

961
00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:39,730
science and evidence-based treatments

962
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:42,250
but when we ask them what kind of

963
00:45:47,670 --> 00:45:45,130
treatments they think our science mazed

964
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:47,680
they were all over the map but people

965
00:45:52,830 --> 00:45:49,690
wanted on the apogee and the co

966
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:52,840
punctured and all kinds of stuff and the

967
00:45:57,270 --> 00:45:54,690
healthcare system because they think

968
00:46:00,180 --> 00:45:57,280
they like it this stuff and they think

969
00:46:03,240 --> 00:46:00,190
it's science made so I guess that the

970
00:46:06,690 --> 00:46:03,250
main finding of the research the the

971
00:46:10,500 --> 00:46:06,700
take-home message is that people really

972
00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:10,510
don't know what is science-based or what

973
00:46:16,140 --> 00:46:12,730
makes something mean sighs may than

974
00:46:18,540 --> 00:46:16,150
something not be science-based that's no

975
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:18,550
small task I don't even know where you

976
00:46:23,100 --> 00:46:21,010
would end up starting so what is it that

977
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:23,110
you guys are trying to do besides I know

978
00:46:27,030 --> 00:46:25,210
you just started it's only been a year

979
00:46:29,010 --> 00:46:27,040
and one of the first things you did is

980
00:46:30,630 --> 00:46:29,020
you came to psych on because you wanted

981
00:46:32,340 --> 00:46:30,640
to meet new people and you wanted to

982
00:46:35,250 --> 00:46:32,350
kind of find out what's going on other

983
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:35,260
people are doing Natalia and Carlos and

984
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:37,330
I were up late last night talking about

985
00:46:42,180 --> 00:46:40,810
this as we do and one of the things we

986
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:42,190
really discussed it was it is so

987
00:46:47,100 --> 00:46:44,170
important that we should know each other

988
00:46:48,510 --> 00:46:47,110
in internationally I mean whether or not

989
00:46:50,250 --> 00:46:48,520
we're going to be able to form some kind

990
00:46:51,780 --> 00:46:50,260
of organization that's international I

991
00:46:53,550 --> 00:46:51,790
don't personally don't think we're there

992
00:46:54,870 --> 00:46:53,560
yet but I do think that we should at

993
00:46:57,150 --> 00:46:54,880
least know each other and I was

994
00:46:59,400 --> 00:46:57,160
explaining to them about podcasting and

995
00:47:00,840 --> 00:46:59,410
how important podcasting is and it

996
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:00,850
reaches so many people and it's so

997
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:03,610
inexpensive I'm personally hoping we're

998
00:47:08,310 --> 00:47:05,530
gonna find a lot of Portuguese speaking

999
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:08,320
people who will launch podcasts that

1000
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:10,810
will focus on science but really with

1001
00:47:14,940 --> 00:47:12,490
the skepticism and critical thinking

1002
00:47:16,620 --> 00:47:14,950
been where the harm is especially

1003
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:16,630
getting into this alternative medicine

1004
00:47:21,750 --> 00:47:19,450
yeah the thing that we're trying to do

1005
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:21,760
with the Institute is try to take her to

1006
00:47:27,150 --> 00:47:24,850
different things so on one hand we want

1007
00:47:29,310 --> 00:47:27,160
to provide solid information to the

1008
00:47:30,720 --> 00:47:29,320
population to the public in an

1009
00:47:33,450 --> 00:47:30,730
accessible language that they can

1010
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:33,460
understand without scientific jargon so

1011
00:47:39,150 --> 00:47:36,370
we started magazine very similar to

1012
00:47:41,730 --> 00:47:39,160
skeptical inquirer on the other hand we

1013
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:41,740
have to talk to the decision-makers so

1014
00:47:45,720 --> 00:47:43,450
we have to talk to politicians we have

1015
00:47:48,060 --> 00:47:45,730
to talk to the government and then we're

1016
00:47:50,550 --> 00:47:48,070
trying to really advocate for science

1017
00:47:53,430 --> 00:47:50,560
and so we're trying to bring

1018
00:47:56,060 --> 00:47:53,440
into the Parliament in Brazil into the

1019
00:47:59,520 --> 00:47:56,070
Congress and try to talk to as many

1020
00:48:03,210 --> 00:47:59,530
congressmen and Senators as we as we can

1021
00:48:05,850 --> 00:48:03,220
so the magazine is an attempt to know if

1022
00:48:08,910 --> 00:48:05,860
you do research on this stuff and if you

1023
00:48:12,090 --> 00:48:08,920
dig just a little deeper you will find

1024
00:48:14,430 --> 00:48:12,100
our articles just explaining to you that

1025
00:48:17,550 --> 00:48:14,440
it's not that collagen pills won't

1026
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:17,560
prevent you from aging and things like

1027
00:48:23,190 --> 00:48:19,450
that so one of the things I wanted to

1028
00:48:27,060 --> 00:48:23,200
mention is that your magazine is not

1029
00:48:28,860 --> 00:48:27,070
print it's online and it's free and it's

1030
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:28,870
free for people it's in Portuguese and

1031
00:48:32,940 --> 00:48:31,210
it has an English translation as well I

1032
00:48:35,220 --> 00:48:32,950
want to make sure that everybody knows

1033
00:48:37,590 --> 00:48:35,230
how to find that and how they can reach

1034
00:48:39,330 --> 00:48:37,600
out to you guys if they want to be at

1035
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:39,340
help if there is anybody in San Paulo

1036
00:48:44,070 --> 00:48:42,370
listening right now or more Portuguese

1037
00:48:46,770 --> 00:48:44,080
speakers who would love to work on a

1038
00:48:48,300 --> 00:48:46,780
podcast let's get this taken care of and

1039
00:48:50,550 --> 00:48:48,310
get some conferences down there and get

1040
00:48:52,650 --> 00:48:50,560
people active and excited and and start

1041
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:52,660
building the community how would they go

1042
00:48:57,900 --> 00:48:55,450
about finding you guys okay so you can

1043
00:48:59,730 --> 00:48:57,910
find us on Facebook Institute question

1044
00:49:03,060 --> 00:48:59,740
of Science Institute to Keystone de

1045
00:49:05,340 --> 00:49:03,070
ciencia in Portuguese and we go by the

1046
00:49:08,460 --> 00:49:05,350
same name in our website Twitter account

1047
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:08,470
and Instagram account right well as if

1048
00:49:14,370 --> 00:49:11,410
you are at a park you speak here just

1049
00:49:17,370 --> 00:49:14,380
right in your browser tab TV stock is

1050
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:17,380
down this en japón compound to be and

1051
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:19,930
you will be there if you want up a

1052
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:26,130
quicker access is iqc dot org dot BR and

1053
00:49:32,070 --> 00:49:29,410
the the magazine has a two foreign

1054
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:32,080
languages steps when in English one in

1055
00:49:37,260 --> 00:49:35,290
Spanish most of the material in this in

1056
00:49:40,020 --> 00:49:37,270
English and in Spanish are our

1057
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:40,030
editorials or opinion pieces there are a

1058
00:49:45,630 --> 00:49:42,490
few articles and more journalistic

1059
00:49:47,820 --> 00:49:45,640
pieces in each of them in the English

1060
00:49:50,370 --> 00:49:47,830
section there's my an English

1061
00:49:53,130 --> 00:49:50,380
translation of the news story I wrote

1062
00:49:56,220 --> 00:49:53,140
about our power survey so you can have

1063
00:49:58,080 --> 00:49:56,230
more details there well thank you guys

1064
00:50:00,030 --> 00:49:58,090
for listening thank you guys for

1065
00:50:01,650 --> 00:50:00,040
visiting I really appreciate you came

1066
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:01,660
all the way down they had to rent a car

1067
00:50:04,450 --> 00:50:02,690
in San Francisco

1068
00:50:07,030 --> 00:50:04,460
drive a couple hours to come to my house

1069
00:50:08,620 --> 00:50:07,040
and stay the night I appreciate that you

1070
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:08,630
guys took the time out to come and stay

1071
00:50:15,190 --> 00:50:12,650
with us and we had some long talks Thank

1072
00:50:18,370 --> 00:50:15,200
You skeptic zone listeners I will be in

1073
00:50:21,819 --> 00:50:18,380
Australia in December so please come out

1074
00:50:24,670 --> 00:50:21,829
and a change skeptic on Australia in

1075
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:24,680
Melbourne in December thanks all

1076
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:36,450
[Music]

1077
00:50:42,210 --> 00:50:39,970
skeptic on 2019 the Australian skeptics

1078
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:42,220
National Convention will be in Melbourne

1079
00:50:49,499 --> 00:50:47,890
from the 6th to the 8th of December we

1080
00:50:51,900 --> 00:50:49,509
have an impressive speaker line-up

1081
00:50:54,779 --> 00:50:51,910
including the skeptics guide to the

1082
00:50:58,289 --> 00:50:54,789
universe dr. Steve novella Jay novella

1083
00:51:01,319 --> 00:50:58,299
Cara Santa Maria Bob novella and Evan

1084
00:51:04,039 --> 00:51:01,329
Bernstein also susan gerbic from

1085
00:51:06,390 --> 00:51:04,049
guerrilla skepticism on wikipedia and

1086
00:51:10,170 --> 00:51:06,400
many other international and local

1087
00:51:13,470 --> 00:51:10,180
guests including Joe Thorley the host of

1088
00:51:16,700 --> 00:51:13,480
zealot a podcast about cults and an

1089
00:51:19,349 --> 00:51:16,710
author of a book by the same name

1090
00:51:21,900 --> 00:51:19,359
skeptic God includes a trivia night on

1091
00:51:26,130 --> 00:51:21,910
Thursday the 5th of December to test

1092
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:26,140
your skeptical knowledge for more

1093
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:28,210
information about the event the speakers

1094
00:51:32,130 --> 00:51:30,690
and how to buy tickets visit skeptic

1095
00:51:35,069 --> 00:51:32,140
on.org

1096
00:51:35,940 --> 00:51:35,079
au or follow the link in this week's

1097
00:51:48,729 --> 00:51:35,950
show notes

1098
00:51:54,140 --> 00:51:51,169
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1099
00:51:58,219 --> 00:51:54,150
zone and thank you to all the Apollo

1100
00:51:59,839 --> 00:51:58,229
astronauts for for quite a ride quite a

1101
00:52:03,279 --> 00:51:59,849
ride fifty years ago

1102
00:52:07,189 --> 00:52:03,289
and indeed extending right back to

1103
00:52:10,549 --> 00:52:07,199
Apollo one the way we remember and white

1104
00:52:12,799 --> 00:52:10,559
Roger Chaffee and Gus Grissom who sadly

1105
00:52:17,209 --> 00:52:12,809
perished on the launch pad during

1106
00:52:19,309 --> 00:52:17,219
testing for the Apollo missions now

1107
00:52:21,319 --> 00:52:19,319
later next month later in August if

1108
00:52:24,799 --> 00:52:21,329
you're coming to Dragon Con the Dragon

1109
00:52:27,019 --> 00:52:24,809
Con convention con con Convention the

1110
00:52:28,609 --> 00:52:27,029
dragon Convention Dragon Con in Atlanta

1111
00:52:30,979 --> 00:52:28,619
Georgia I'll be taking part in the

1112
00:52:32,900 --> 00:52:30,989
skeptic track there with my old friends

1113
00:52:36,829 --> 00:52:32,910
Derek Colin do know from skepticality

1114
00:52:39,079 --> 00:52:36,839
and dr. Angie matki and lots of other

1115
00:52:41,179 --> 00:52:39,089
people there at Dragon Con including the

1116
00:52:42,469 --> 00:52:41,189
skeptics guide to the universe also

1117
00:52:44,449 --> 00:52:42,479
later on this year we have the New

1118
00:52:46,069 --> 00:52:44,459
Zealand skeptics National Convention I

1119
00:52:48,140 --> 00:52:46,079
hope to bring you some more information

1120
00:52:50,179 --> 00:52:48,150
about that before long and not

1121
00:52:52,249 --> 00:52:50,189
forgetting then in December the

1122
00:52:55,249 --> 00:52:52,259
Australian skeptics National Convention

1123
00:52:57,349 --> 00:52:55,259
in Melbourne with SGU susan gerbic and

1124
00:52:59,120 --> 00:52:57,359
many other guests but if you're in

1125
00:53:02,269 --> 00:52:59,130
sydney and you want some fun come along

1126
00:53:04,699 --> 00:53:02,279
to Maynard's movie night there's one on

1127
00:53:06,620 --> 00:53:04,709
the 6th of august at the red bar which

1128
00:53:09,109 --> 00:53:06,630
is in glebe at the end of Glee Point

1129
00:53:10,909 --> 00:53:09,119
Road near the Broadway it's only ten

1130
00:53:15,649 --> 00:53:10,919
dollars and more information for that

1131
00:53:18,620 --> 00:53:15,659
night can be found at Maynard com dot au

1132
00:53:20,989 --> 00:53:18,630
as well as information about Maenads

1133
00:53:23,809 --> 00:53:20,999
music nights the dance parties the Love

1134
00:53:26,390 --> 00:53:23,819
Shack head for Maine a calm day you for

1135
00:53:29,089 --> 00:53:26,400
Maine add fun information and his

1136
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:29,099
podcasts and I hope to see you on the

1137
00:53:34,789 --> 00:53:32,130
6th of August at Maenads movie night and

1138
00:53:36,769 --> 00:53:34,799
thank you to those people those patreon

1139
00:53:39,979 --> 00:53:36,779
people and people who chip in with

1140
00:53:43,339 --> 00:53:39,989
paypal lots of people are chipping in

1141
00:53:46,399 --> 00:53:43,349
with patreon for five dollars a month

1142
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:46,409
which means it's less than a dollar a

1143
00:53:52,789 --> 00:53:49,890
week less than a dollar a week to enjoy

1144
00:53:56,359 --> 00:53:52,799
the skeptic zone that really is just

1145
00:54:00,050 --> 00:53:56,369
spare pocket change and if you think you

1146
00:54:03,230 --> 00:54:00,060
can spare less than a dollar a week

1147
00:54:04,850 --> 00:54:03,240
since beer cents a week for the sceptic

1148
00:54:07,870 --> 00:54:04,860
zone I would really appreciate it and so

1149
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:07,880
would all the skeptics own reporters and

1150
00:54:12,980 --> 00:54:11,130
maybe more importantly the thousands of

1151
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:12,990
people around the world who continue to

1152
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:15,090
enjoy the skeptic zone now if you're

1153
00:54:19,190 --> 00:54:16,650
listening to the skeptic zone for free

1154
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:19,200
without being a patreon or PayPal that's

1155
00:54:23,990 --> 00:54:22,290
fine I'm delighted

1156
00:54:25,430 --> 00:54:24,000
I really am pleased that you're

1157
00:54:29,030 --> 00:54:25,440
listening to the show but if you feel

1158
00:54:30,890 --> 00:54:29,040
that your enjoyment of the show what you

1159
00:54:33,710 --> 00:54:30,900
get out of it the company it gives you

1160
00:54:35,630 --> 00:54:33,720
on those long drives those walks yes I'm

1161
00:54:37,460 --> 00:54:35,640
talking to you on that long walk now

1162
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:37,470
with the dog or you in the car

1163
00:54:43,610 --> 00:54:40,770
you on the bus you on the train doing

1164
00:54:47,150 --> 00:54:43,620
the dishes mowing the lawn whatever

1165
00:54:50,270 --> 00:54:47,160
you're doing if I'm providing you

1166
00:54:53,780 --> 00:54:50,280
entertainment and some companionship and

1167
00:54:55,700 --> 00:54:53,790
interest then I hope you'll I hope

1168
00:54:58,070 --> 00:54:55,710
you'll think that the show is worth less

1169
00:55:01,250 --> 00:54:58,080
than a dollar a week to you anyway go to

1170
00:55:03,980 --> 00:55:01,260
skeptic zone TV and find out more about

1171
00:55:06,410 --> 00:55:03,990
becoming a patreon you know leave view

1172
00:55:11,410 --> 00:55:06,420
of this thought that I sincerely hope

1173
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:11,420
that sometime within the next 10 years

1174
00:55:19,550 --> 00:55:16,170
that there are more moon missions I was

1175
00:55:21,410 --> 00:55:19,560
really too young to appreciate those the

1176
00:55:24,530 --> 00:55:21,420
moon missions of the late 60s early 70s

1177
00:55:27,620 --> 00:55:24,540
and personally I would think that would

1178
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:27,630
be so exciting with today's technology

1179
00:55:33,710 --> 00:55:31,050
and high def cameras and what-have-you

1180
00:55:35,330 --> 00:55:33,720
to see people back on the moon and I

1181
00:55:38,540 --> 00:55:35,340
wouldn't be surprised if it's another

1182
00:55:40,700 --> 00:55:38,550
country who gets there next we'll see

1183
00:55:43,220 --> 00:55:40,710
but for this week from Sydney Australia

1184
00:55:45,340 --> 00:55:43,230
maybe it will be Australia yes the

1185
00:55:47,900 --> 00:55:45,350
Australian space force off to the moon

1186
00:55:53,210 --> 00:55:47,910
any volunteers this is Richard Saunders

1187
00:55:59,420 --> 00:55:55,740
you've been listening to the skeptic

1188
00:56:04,410 --> 00:55:59,430
zone podcast please visit our website at

1189
00:56:07,230 --> 00:56:04,420
WWDC be for show notes contacts and to

1190
00:56:10,860 --> 00:56:07,240
access the bat catalog of episodes going

1191
00:56:13,670 --> 00:56:10,870
back to 2008 you can follow the skeptic

1192
00:56:16,410 --> 00:56:13,680
zone podcast on twitter at skeptic zone

1193
00:56:19,890 --> 00:56:16,420
visit our facebook page or leave a

1194
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:19,900
review on itunes you can also support

1195
00:56:25,230 --> 00:56:22,810
the skeptic zone via patreon or PayPal

1196
00:56:27,900 --> 00:56:25,240
the skeptic zone podcast is an

1197
00:56:29,730 --> 00:56:27,910
independent production reviews and

1198
00:56:31,980 --> 00:56:29,740
opinions expressed on the skeptic zone

1199
00:56:34,530 --> 00:56:31,990
are not necessarily those of Australian

1200
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:34,540
skeptics or any other skeptical

1201
00:56:46,740 --> 00:56:35,450
organization

1202
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:49,330
hello people who listen after the music

1203
00:56:54,790 --> 00:56:51,770
the afterthoughts I'm still on the line

1204
00:56:57,730 --> 00:56:54,800
by weird technology maybe from the

1205
00:56:59,260 --> 00:56:57,740
aliens with Ben Radford hello Ben

1206
00:57:01,860 --> 00:56:59,270
we're gonna play the dice game again and

1207
00:57:05,140 --> 00:57:01,870
I'm gonna use my lovely alien die from

1208
00:57:05,650 --> 00:57:05,150
Albuquerque you are I got a good feeling

1209
00:57:07,630 --> 00:57:05,660
about this

1210
00:57:10,240 --> 00:57:07,640
he's got a good feeling it's only six

1211
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:10,250
sided but each side has either UFOs or

1212
00:57:15,130 --> 00:57:12,770
aliens or alien eyes it's quite cute and

1213
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:15,140
they glow in the dark boy this is this

1214
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:17,210
is this is quite a set of guidelines

1215
00:57:22,450 --> 00:57:19,250
word no I certainly did

1216
00:57:24,460 --> 00:57:22,460
okay I'm gonna roll the six-sided die

1217
00:57:27,850 --> 00:57:24,470
here folks everybody out there use your

1218
00:57:29,950 --> 00:57:27,860
predicting powers and think what number

1219
00:57:33,730 --> 00:57:29,960
will come up and you'll have to trust my

1220
00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:33,740
honesty I am I every week I do say what

1221
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:37,610
the faces of the the diet Ben would you

1222
00:57:43,570 --> 00:57:40,370
care to hazard a guess what number comes

1223
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:43,580
up first I'm getting it - you getting a

1224
00:57:53,130 --> 00:57:45,410
- all right here we go

1225
00:57:56,620 --> 00:57:53,140
here we go 5 mmm okay well I to be fair

1226
00:57:59,140 --> 00:57:56,630
it's only up by three that's pretty

1227
00:58:01,420 --> 00:57:59,150
close we'll try it again

1228
00:58:02,740 --> 00:58:01,430
come on aliens everywhere here we go

1229
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:02,750
maybe the aliens are listening and

1230
00:58:08,590 --> 00:58:05,210
predicting okay okay oh no no sorry you

1231
00:58:10,690 --> 00:58:08,600
have to call it first um six ain't

1232
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:10,700
getting a six getting a six here we go

1233
00:58:18,430 --> 00:58:14,890
no fell off the table damn it we go

1234
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:18,440
four okay now it would have been it

1235
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:21,170
would have been a sick either would have

1236
00:58:23,770 --> 00:58:22,490
been a six of course I it would have

1237
00:58:25,330 --> 00:58:23,780
been just just you understand it

1238
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:25,340
would've been a six but since anyway

1239
00:58:30,070 --> 00:58:29,090
that's okay what am I thinking okay last

1240
00:58:35,830 --> 00:58:30,080
one here we go

1241
00:58:42,940 --> 00:58:35,840
what do you say three three okay here we

1242
00:58:45,310 --> 00:58:42,950
go I don't believe it it's two now wait

1243
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:45,320
a minute every time you're getting a bit

1244
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:47,890
closer to the to the actual number and

1245
00:58:52,810 --> 00:58:50,930
if you think about it what are the

1246
00:58:56,080 --> 00:58:52,820
chances that I would be wrong every time

1247
00:58:59,650 --> 00:58:56,090
that's Wow let's go dude

1248
00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:03,370
oh by the way every time I burp or

1249
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:04,730
something that's not being recorded I

1250
00:59:13,410 --> 00:59:09,050
mute my microphone I got a plane hang on

1251
00:59:15,790 --> 00:59:13,420
a sec maybe it's an alien I don't know

1252
00:59:17,670 --> 00:59:15,800
what don't they want us to record videos

1253
00:59:20,500 --> 00:59:17,680
that's it that's it

1254
00:59:22,750 --> 00:59:20,510
it's just dying now and we should tell

1255
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:22,760
what they would this is what kills me

1256
00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:24,890
man I love to do interviews in the

1257
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:26,690
morning Sydney time because I got a good

1258
00:59:31,390 --> 00:59:28,490
voice you know I got I've slept all

1259
00:59:34,780 --> 00:59:31,400
night my voice is fresh and yeah it's

1260
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:34,790
got the tones I really appreciate but at

1261
00:59:40,510 --> 00:59:38,330
the same time my tummy rumbles so quite

1262
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:40,520
often I'm ready I'm recording something

1263
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:42,170
for the show like and of course when the